15 August, 2024 Arteles, Finland
MD: This is Melissa DeLaney and it is Thursday the 15th of August at 1528 at Arteles Creative Centre, Finland
Rebecca: I'm Rebecca Layton, I'm from Portland, Maine in the US.
MD: Great. Thank you Rebecca. And the first question is,
Tell me who you are, beyond your name and beyond Rebecca from Portland, Maine.
And take your time.
Rebecca: So, I am. A person. I'm an artist and a textile designer, and I work as a clinical therapist. And I'm a daughter and a friend and sister. And other than those things, it really depends on any given day. Who I am is very much based on conditions and circumstances and what's happening and where I am and how I'm feeling in my body. and what may be coming out in my thoughts and emotions based on all of those things, either internally or externally. So it really varies.
MD: Thank you. And the next question has two or more different strands to it really because I'm interested in your personal response as you, the person and all those things that you've talked about that are part of you, and also the public response in terms of the broader cultural environment in which you live and engage and contribute to. And also beyond that, into the broader publics of which you're part as well.
What's the first thing that you think about? And that comes to your mind when you think of care.
Rebecca: The first thing that I think about, is having presence.
MD: And is that presence for yourself or presence for other people?
Rebecca: For both. Yeah. Yeah.
And having some warmth, and compassion to the presence.
MD: Yeah.
Rebecca: Um, or at the very least, having some curiosity to the presence. And. Interest. Um, interest in knowing or interest in, Being with.
MD: What are some of the ways that you create presence?
Rebecca: I think it gets created when I'm able to slow down and have some awareness about what I'm doing or having some consciousness around myself and what I may be. Whether I can sort of be in the moment or not. Yeah. Whether I can let go of expectations or let go of going to the past or going to the future. So that involves me being able to have awareness of my body and what may be arising to in order to have the presence.
MD: To be tuning in and monitoring that as you go about your your daily life. So in the broader aspects of the of relationship, and I mean relationship really broadly with others in your life, personal relationships, familial relationships, relationships of work, relationships of practice.
What are the first things that come to your mind around care in those worlds?
Rebecca: Sorry. Can you say that again?
MD: Sure …
In your daily life, beyond Rebecca and in relationship with the things and people around you, what is the first thing that comes to your mind in relationship to care in those worlds outside yourself, but still in your perimeters?
Rebecca: To be community. Those that I interact with, community that is chosen and community that gets created. I think having awareness of what's happening around locally and not getting too tied into abstract like things that are happening very far away or that I don't actually have a direct experience with. So it means sort of tuning in in a way to what's immediately around and what what I can influence or what influences me, and having a direct experience of that.
MD: And what about in that world that isn't in your direct experience? The broader world and that could be in your town or your city or your country. and in those bigger abstract places, in that bigger abstract, what does care mean to you?
What is the first thing that comes to your mind when you think of the broader world outside of your reach and outside of your influence?
Rebecca: I think care can happen on a larger macro level through policies and through sharing resources with people that are not directly nearby. Within other parts of the country, like, for instance, where I'm from in the US or other parts of the world, but some of that is not within my purview, but I can participate in other ways.
MD: And what are some of those ways that you can participate in care?
Rebecca: Mhm. That's an interesting question because I wonder about that a lot. About what I actually can participate in and what ways I can. And I think some of it has to do with traveling or getting to know people from different parts of the world. And some of it has to do with understanding what's happening and getting information. But sometimes that can also be overwhelming. Or it can be on an intellectual level that can sort of take away from my compassion or understanding sometimes. Sometimes it has to do with like reading books or literature, or seeing art or film or music. That gives me an experience of understanding what it's like for someone.
MD: We talked a little bit earlier, in the car, I think, yesterday about your work as well, which is providing high levels of care for people, individuals and family units and couples and people in relationship. So I'm interested in hearing how you bring that empathy into the workplace and then how you provide that professional container of care for people, but also care for yourself within that, because it's a real balance of what you give of yourself and then where you retain that and then how you kind of navigate that space.
Rebecca: Yeah. So I think having an awareness of the boundary and not having some boundary or container around myself and other people, as a professional clinician, it's important because I can't be like their friend. My role is limited, but in other ways, it frees me up to have more compassion because the relationship is different than if I was also needing them to be a certain way, if I can have a little bit of distance somewhat and still have have warmth and positive regard for them, then it allows gives them space to be able to share whatever they need to share. And knowing that I will have I will also have some feelings in response, but that I can also be have awareness of like holding it too.
Which can be difficult sometimes.
MD: I see you're still bringing empathy. But it's a component. It's not your inner core that you're bringing. Which I don't mean that in a cold, disconnected way, but you're giving everything in that moment to whatever's going on there in that dialogue and that exchange and that consultation and that counselling. I'm imagining you being really there and present. But then it's contained in that space and you're able to step back and take yourself with you. You've talked about being present and compassion. They're two really important practices and strands, that's woven through your personal and your public self.
So the next question is forward facing. And again, I'd like to hear about your self and your ideas for your self in this and also some bigger ideas.
How would you like to see more care and acted in your future?
Rebecca: From myself?
MD: Start with yourself. And although you've got some really great practices, and you're conscious and you're mindful and all those things, let's blast into the future. It could even be longer term future. It could be anything from a year to five years. It could be us leaving Arteles in two weeks and taking what some of your findings here are.
What are what are our what's some of your practices of care that you want to take into the future from here as well?
Rebecca: I think one thing that I have to really remember is my own compassion for myself. Because if I can't have that, then I can't have it for other people. And I forget that sometimes. I often forget that. And I think remembering to hold myself in meditation practice helps to have a nurturing presence that is available for me. And then I can I can bring that to other people. But if I cut that step out, I'm always going to be, um, not as compassionate. I'm going to be withholding something or there's a fear there. And so there are parts of me that I have to recognise and nurture. It could be a fearful part. It could be a scared part, insecure or doubt, doubting part, or all of those parts come up in me and then And I need to work with those and see what's happening and have awareness that they might be present. Because if I don't have the awareness of those parts, then I can get lose my compassion or lose my sense of care and empathy.
MD: It's really easy to fragment, isn't it? Without those solid, grounding daily practices of our own self-care, whatever they may be. And we've been meditating every day here, um, twice a day sometimes.
And I've seen you there in most of the sessions.
Is mediation something that you do at home with that regularity?
Rebecca: It's a really important practice for me to do daily and help keep me having that awareness and having that quiet and stillness where I can go back to again and again and notice what's happening. And sometimes in the rush of the day or doing, doing and doing and doing, I lose contact. And then other things come up that are trying to be more in control if I'm not aware. And that can make it difficult for me to be in that presence.
MD: And the meditation you're doing at home, what kind of practice is that?
Rebecca: Mostly, I do Vipassana practice, and I do 30 minutes in the morning, and I have a group that I practice with. I sit together with people that live with in the same house, sometimes we sit together in physical space, but there's also an online group of 20 to 25 people, and we sit for 30 minutes and a different person hosts every day. And then we have 15 minutes of discussion. And that is also really, really helpful. It helps me start the day because I hear what's happening with other people and their practice and or I can share or I can just listen. And it reminds me that I'm not alone with some of these things. People share, might share their own frustrations, and that's incredible. It’s a really it's beautiful way to be in community every morning and to be able to have collective wisdom and share from the heart.
MD: Do you live in the space together with all of these people?
Rebecca: I live in a house and the person who owns the house is on the top floor, and she rents to people that are Dharma Buddhists. So I'm on the first floor. I have my own apartment. And then somebody else is on the second floor. But we're part of a larger sangha. So often she'll come down or I'll go up and we'll sit together on in front of the computer to meditate with others. And then there's other people in our sangha that are joining as well. And sometimes we also meet in person. Most of them are local, but some of them are farther away. So it's like we it's a really beautiful group.
MD: What a beautiful way to start the day. I think there's real value in practicing in groups as well. For me personally, I like group practices. It gives it more resonance. It helps me to stay focused as well. There's something about being in real life with people. And calibrating ourselves to each other's systems. I'm a massive fan of that kind of work. And I think group meditation and group practice really enables that to happen. Um, so that's really beautiful. Rebecca. It sounds like that is an incredible way to start a day.
How do you close the day off usually?
Rebecca: Yeah, I wish that I closed the day. I actually have been enjoying sitting in the evenings here at Arteles. Sometimes I sit in the evening, but I often see clients until a little bit later because of the schedule. If I can, ideally I would be walking down to the water. I live three blocks from the ocean, so I try to get in touch, at least seeing or even putting my feet in the ocean. Every day. Sometimes I do that in the morning, but it's nice also to take a walk at the end of the day. If I can, cooking for myself is also really one way to take care or seeing a friend. Ideally, I would walk or move my body or be outside or see some have some relationship to nature really helps.
MD: That's very inspiring.
The bigger picture from there is, how would you like to see more care enacted in the future of the big wide world around us?
Rebecca: I've really come to the conclusion that there's not that much that I can control. And I have only a handful of people that I come into contact with that I can affect at any given time. I can do that with my clients. I can do it with friends or colleagues or community members. Or when I'm traveling with people that I meet. But I don't think that I have that much control, actually. I do think that meditation practice is the best way for me to practice peace and care, because if I have awareness, it's kind of like what we were talking about before, if I don't have awareness about what's going on in this body, in this heart and mind, then if I don't have that awareness, then I will do harm or I know that I can do harm in other ways to yourself.
MD: And also that feeds out.
Rebecca: I think the only thing I can control is, is my own reactivity and then how that gets expressed with other people directly because I don't go on social media. So I don't feel that I have that much reach. Actually.
MD: That's an incredible act. That that's the ultimate reality, really. And it pares everything back and all the noise back. Then what you have is what is there around you, what is in your present. And everything else is noise and scrambling. And it's a really beautifully powerful thing, Rebecca, to to be aware of that in your practice and your work. I think that is an act of broader care for community.
I'm prompted by something that you just said, and it's a question that I sometimes ask, but I don’t know the answer to. You talked about bringing peace into the world and your meditation practice enabling that and supporting that peace, starting with yourself and then amplifying out.
Is that the meaning? And I know this is such a strange question because it's about … What are we doing? I'm just interested if you see that practice as being a peacemaker. Is that your meaning?
Rebecca: I don't know. I have not thought about it as me being a peacemaker or it being my meaning.
I think the art practice that I've done for so many years is one way to create beauty in the world, and I don't think that is small either. Actually, these clothes that I have designed and worked on over the years, and there's this not, you know, huge number of people, but there are people that wear them and enjoy them and that I come into contact with. That's not huge. But I think that's one way is color and form and pattern and beauty can also be an expression of peace.
MD: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Rebecca: And then there's the my own inner work that I think is what I owe to myself and the world is to do that work.
MD: I'm pretty excited about that as well, particularly watching you and hearing about your work. The textile work and the stitch. because it is also a repair. Not only is it a meditative process of stitch, but I see that you are repairing. There's that beautiful stitching and repairing and working into a fabric and reworking into a fabric and doing things by hand. I'm looking at you now. You're wearing one of your pieces. Mhm. And there's this beautiful low-fi ness to it, and it's handmade and it's stitched. It's very beautiful. And it follows all the principles of design. The fabrics. Lovely. It's a soft thing to wear. but it is also this repair that you've been doing. That's care as well. You're caring for the garment and creating a garment. But there's this incredibly beautiful care field and practice around it.
Rebecca: Yeah. And it's sort of like creating beauty. My mother is a really skilled gardener, which I haven't picked up that skill because I've never owned land or had land access. But, I think it comes from a matrilineal line. And my mother, my grandmother and who knows how far going back they brought to me a flair and understanding of color and pattern and richness in that and being able to create that in the world and, and having that eye or that skill. And that I think that there is something for me, it's a female matrilineal line that I see it. I have other things from my father.
I think there is something about it that I see it in your space as well, I see how you create in your world and your table that you're working on in your studio space and how you inhabit that, I think is creating beauty to be shared with the world.
MD: Yeah, that's one of my personal strands as well, as aesthetics is very important. And objects and where I place things and move them around. ,I'm playful with that and can be quite obsessive.
Rebecca: Because I think there is something that it's creating a sense of a feeling of safety, but also vibrancy and creativity that I think you can inhabit in the world, too, when you have that, when you're creating those spaces, I think it's really important.
MD: Thank you. to add to that as well, for me, watching your work in addition to the stitching, we were talking today in the salon about mapping. It's also mapping. You're also creating these maps as well. And the matrilineal stuff is beautiful because that's also about creating those maps and the fabrics. Textiles traditionally being a very female centric art form as well. Definitely textiles, embroidery. It was domestic and it was something that our ancestors really had to work hard to get it into the contemporary lexicon of arts practice as well.
Rebecca: Yes, it wasn't 20, 25 years ago. Now it is.
MD: There's a strength in the softness, I guess. And I think that is a really beautiful way that you are also bringing care to the world around you as well.
Rebecca: Thank you. That is really lovely way to put it. Of the strength and the softness.
MD: And just as we come to a close, there were some things that I'm taking away from from our conversation.
Your daily practice of meditation and with a community of practice is really important. Your artwork and acknowledging your family ancestral line, but also a broader context. I think the compassion as well is really beautiful. And the beauty, the the beauty is a piece as well. I think that the aesthetic piece and work is really beautiful and something to be valued. So thank you so much.
I am wondering, is there anything else that you'd like to add today before we close off?
Rebecca: I'm curious about what sparked this project for you and what you were thinking about and how it kind of gestated.
MD: I've been thinking about it for a while and thought that it would be a good opportunity while I'm here within an international community of people who have similar but different trajectories, to have some conversations and to start the recordings.
And again, a lot of the themes that have been coming up generally at the residency. It started off me questioning, what is my responsibility as a human, engaging in the world, being alive at this moment in time. And I'm also really interested in more-than-human life forms. I'm interested in life and being alive for as long as I'm alive. So what can I do as a resource in the world? A bit like you were talking about and managing myself as a resource. So then I can go out into the world and do whatever that work is. And part of that has been questioning and interrogating. How do we really enact care in our lives for ourselves, but also in our worlds around us. So it started with that, and then I started becoming more interested in systems of care and how different cultures look at care, how our organisations and structures care or don't care. And I think the pandemic really shifted things for all of us because it showed us who cared for us. Right. And it showed the world that the big structures fell down really quickly.
And then the structures we had around us were our immediate communities. And they were the people. Where does our food come from? Where does our water come from? You know, who are we talking to? What are we thinking about? What are we reading? What are we eating? What are our practices? Where are we going? Where are we walking? So all of those things are super important to me and to all of us. I know what happens to myself if my practice deviates and I fragment, and then I've got to pull it all back, you've got to get under the noise and get to your core.
So all of that's care. And then the responsibility of societal care. So that's what I really wanted to kind of start to pull apart. Yeah.
And then in my work with the organisation I work for. One of our ethos practices around we are an organisation of care. We're a system of care. We're an arts organisation. So it's all about also being regenerative and contributing to a future rather than being extractive. That's the stage I'm at philosophically with work. With myself. So while I'm alive, what can I do? It's like that thing where, you know, you go into the forest and you tread lightly. Mhm. And I always have this thing of when I leave a place, tread lightly. Don't take things, leave it lightly, but also leave it better than when you leave.
That's beautiful. And not better… Because my better might not be your better. Right. So it's better if I see something on the ground that's rubbish, I'll pick it up and put it in the bin. That kind of better. Not coming in and controlling the space of what I think is better. That's a practice as well. Standing back or with other people and community deciding what is better.
Rebecca: Well, I just would like to invite you to come and visit me in Portland, Maine. I have a guest bedroom and you're most welcome if you ever come to the US. It's an interesting place. It's a small city, but it's right by the water. And I think you would find it really interesting.
There's a lot of interesting things going on that I'm just really on the periphery of, I, I should say also, like, I'm very much an introvert. Yeah. I'm not an extrovert. And so that that's why I have to actually really take care of getting over being around too many people. This has been a challenge for me.